Welcome to the Gamebase 64 forums.                 An attempt to document ALL Commodore 64 gameware before it's too late!

Can it make a console?

Discuss GameBase, the Universal Emulator Frontend!

Moderator: Jimbo

tp
tpeirs

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:37 am

Hi, it's Tom here. Just following up.

Can we work something out?

Thanks,
Tom
J2003C
GB64 Team
Location: Just South of Hell
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:57 pm

Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:37 am

Tom, I think you're ok to go ahead with your project (as far as I could tell from the GB Team responses). Just please don't sell it for profit, just as you are doing now with your other (MAME) projects.

Please post back here when you have a working version we (any C64 emu fans) can see and/or download. I've always thought that a C64 arcade console/cabinet would be very cool!
-J2010C-
User avatar
Pugsy
GB64 Team
Contact:
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:58 pm

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:28 am

J2003C wrote:Tom, I think you're ok to go ahead with your project (as far as I could tell from the GB Team responses). Just please don't sell it for profit, just as you are doing now with your other (MAME) projects.

Please post back here when you have a working version we (any C64 emu fans) can see and/or download. I've always thought that a C64 arcade console/cabinet would be very cool!
I did not get that feeling from the team responses or the lack off responses, in fact I believe the the license explicitly disallows it.

From the License:-

Code: Select all

2. Licence

2.1 The GB64 Collection is owned and copyrighted (c)1998-2005 by the GB64 Team.  The GB64 Team grants the right for you to use the GB64 Collection exclusively for your own personal non-commercial purposes provided that the database is only viewed, accessed or amended via the GameBase Frontend (or Microsoft Access [any compatible version]), and that the database is only viewed or accessed via the GB64 website.  You are entitled to make backups and copies of the offline database, and in doing so you acknowledge that each copy or backup you produce follows the same licence laid out in this document.
Gamebase64 Team Member http://www.gamebase64.com
Ex-freelance cheat listing/pokes contributer to Zzap, CF, CU & ACE
MAME Cheat File Maintainer http://www.mamecheat.co.uk
J2003C
GB64 Team
Location: Just South of Hell
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:57 pm

Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:56 pm

I did not see your response until now, so I incorrectly assumed that there was a consensus. It is a concern that CD1 has both the GPL license for GB and a different one for the GBC. The GBC license is also written in such a (bad) way that any use of the GBC (on the Web or Frontend) is actually a violation of the license! Also, you cannot use the GPL with another license as is done here, since they contradict eachother; legally, anyone can chose to follow one licence even if it violates the other. This is really picky and lawer-speak, but 2 licenses is confusing if they are packaged together on 1 CD.

Do you, Martin or any other GB Team member, object to Tom using the DB outside the restrictions of the GBC license? If not, then maybe we can make an exception in writing with different limitations.
Last edited by J2003C on Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
-J2010C-
User avatar
Pugsy
GB64 Team
Contact:
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:58 pm

Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:58 am

J2003C...see other thread on the team board.

Tom,

What's the advantages to this? All I can see is it's going to run on a Windows PC and it's going to be crippled compared with GB which will run natively on the same PC. Only advantage I could see is the joystick control and that is not really ideal as they'll need a keyboard to run most of the games as VICE and CCS64 afaik have not been programmed to be joystick friendly - infact a keyboard is essential for playing the games (passing crack intros/keyboard controlled games) and controlling the emulator (swapping disks, throttling the speed on loading and exiting). The solution is to use a keyboard and then you may as well just use GB to begin with...am I missing something?
Gamebase64 Team Member http://www.gamebase64.com
Ex-freelance cheat listing/pokes contributer to Zzap, CF, CU & ACE
MAME Cheat File Maintainer http://www.mamecheat.co.uk
Gu
Guest

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:07 am

Its not really about joystick control when playing the games, but about being able to access information, view and navigate detail from the GB64 database either on an Arcade Cabinet with Arcade Controls, on an arcade monitor, or in your living room with a remote control or GamePad.

The purpose of doing this is more about the type of interface/front end rather than being able to play the games without a keyboard. Although that would be cool, and I believe there is things that can be done there.

In addition Arcade Controls normally send keys to windows, and there are utilities such as joytokey that allow gamepads to work with emulators that dont support them. If running GameEx as or part as HTPC software, it may also be possible to use a remote control for sending non directional based input to the emulators. A lot of HTPC users also have a wireless keyboard, and having to drop down to keyboard input is needed sometimes anyway. Although the aim is to avoid that as much as possible, which I believe GameEx does very well.

I also see the full potential of the GameBase project, and adding support for GB64 will likely lead the way to adding support for the other GameBase databases that never need a keyboard to play the games.

Go ahead and setup GameEx with MAME and a gamepad, if you have time and hopefully youll see the possibilities.

I am still keen :)

Let me know.
mike_tcis
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:42 pm

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:08 pm

Here is a vote to allow Tom / GameEx to read from the GB64 Access database. GameEx looks to be a killer front-end, and the addition of C64 games would make it that much better.

--Mike
Gu
Guest

Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:17 am

Hi, its Tom here again. Ive left it a week. Are we any closer to getting a distinct decision on this?

Many thanks.
Tom.
daveee65
Keen Member
Keen Member
Contact:
Location: South Australia
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:49 am

Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:09 pm

Hmmm, well I guess you guys (GB64 Team) can make this thing as easy, or as complicated as you like for yourselves :? . I am NOT a lawyer, but I have read a little on copyright theory for my own purposes and would like to make some suggestions.

Remember, as a team, GB64 owns the copyright to the GB64 database. Copyright is designed to protect the owner, so within reason, you can make your own rules to protect that copyright. You can also make specific exclusions to nominated users as you see fit. In that case, you would revert to a 'Private Licence' agreement. Private licence agreements should be able to run in parallel with a General Public Licence, you are just defining specific terms for individuals in a similar way as you would for your own development team. In fact, I don't think there is any reason why you can't grant any number of private licences and the conditions of each private licence do not have to be the same.

Alternatively, you may also choose not to enforce certain sections of a General Public Licence in exceptional cases, or if you feel particular sections of a general licence are not applicable. Just because you decide to make specific exceptions on some occasions, it does not mean the affected clause becomes invalid for others and it certainly does not make the remainder of the licence invalid.

I guess the GB64 contributors should cast a vote whether or not to accept Tom Spiers' proposal, or consider modifying the licensing agreement, which I think is your prerogative. But before you do either, I have a few other points you might like to consider. I'm sorry they are a bit wordy, but I hope they help:-

1. Why don't you guys distribute GB64 separately from Gamebase and consider Gamebase to be an entirely seperate entity? I think this would solve a lot of the problems described above. After all, GB64 is a database, which simply utilises the Gamebase software. All the other databases which plug into the Gamebase frontend are considered to be entirely seperate projects, or if they are not, they should be. For example, I don't consider for one moment that the GNU General Public License (GPL) which applies to the Gamebase frontend has any rights over the distribution of my own SNES Gamebase, SNES Gamebase is my own interlectual property and I will distribute it as I see fit.

2. There is a clause in the GNU General Public License (GPL) used by Gamebase (See http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.php), which states the licence should apply to the core software and it's related works. But considering databases produced by Gamebase are 'related works' is like saying any documents produced by MS Word are the property of Microsoft! This is a ludicrous statement, Word files are obviously a form of documentation, which in turn is a form of data and data is owned/controlled by the Author, not the software developer. As the name implies, Databases are also a form of data, so the distribution of GB64 should be controlled by the GB64 team. Therefore in my view, the Gamebase software team have no inherrent right of control over GB64, even though the two may have started as the same project and the same characters may have been involved in the development of both end products.

3. It can be argued that the reverse of my arguement No.2 is also true;
i.e. Since GB64 may be considered data which is not directly associated with Gamebase software, GB64 may be viewed or utilised by any other compatible software. This is the case in the outside world, where for example despite the operation of various commercial and patented constraints, .pdf files may be created and viewed by software other than that of Adobe. However, despite the arguement to allow in the use of other compatible software, it is would be perfectly valid, to add a riding clause with your distribution, which states that GB64 is not guarranteed to operate satisfactorily with any other software other than Gamebase.

4. Remember, none of the above detracts from your right to insist that the GB64 team must be given full accreditation for their merits during the distribution, or use of the GB64 database.

5. Tom Spiers' proposal may not be the only alternative front-end you might be requested to deal with. I have already been approached by someone asking if it's possible to use the contents of my SNES Gamebase in an emulator plugin for MediaPortal - an open source HTPC software. The plugin lists games installed on the HTPC and the user can launch the game he/she wants with the remote. In fact, have already said YES to that project (specifically in relation to SNES Gamebase), providing the original database is not modified and full credit is given. If anyone wants any further info, I will post it up later, but it is a very cool project and I don't see why other Gamebase projects could not be included if the authors are prepared to give permission.

Good luck everyone, I hope you can resolve this for now and the future.

Tom, If you are interested in using my SNES Gamebase for your project, I am happy to discuss via e-mail :D - check out my profile for the address, or visit the Nintendo SNES forum for more details;
http://www.gb64.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

Regards,

Daveee
daveee65
Keen Member
Keen Member
Contact:
Location: South Australia
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:49 am

Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:00 am

Oooh Errr; I just re-checked my last post.
Wordy???
Oh maan, I'm sorry about that, I was thinking a bit deeply at the time :oops:

Anyhoo, please take some time to read through and figure out what I'm saying. I know you could easily switch off after the first para, but please read it through,; it's as close to normal speak as you can get about his sort of thing I promise. Anyone ever try to tried to read the actual GPL?
It's completely Blah-de-blah...Zzzzzzzzzz solicitor cobblers.
My attempt at providing the tiniest bit of advice is mild by comparison.

Come on guys, pleeze stop hiding in corners and voice your opinion. Tom did ask politely and is still patiently waiting. A decision is needed here, which doesn't just affect Tom, but probably many others to follow.

If it counts one ounce for the GB64 developmet team (Whilst for Tom, my word officially means nothing regarding GB64), it's still a BIG YES and a 'Can't think of a single why not' vote from me.

Good luck,
Daveee
Gu
Guest

Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:58 pm

I am asking because I believe ethically I should.

The license cannot stop me writing code to read certain fields from an MS Access database of a certain filename.

I believe the way it sits now, if I code in support to read the GB64 Access database, and not provide it or provide a link to it, and then users go ahead and use GameEx with GameBase, it will be the users breaking the license, not me. Which I doubt there going to care about as there already using Copyrighted Games illegally.

The thing is Id rather have your support, than not have it.

Please be open to the future.

Thanks.
Tom
J2003C
GB64 Team
Location: Just South of Hell
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:57 pm

Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:12 am

There are 2 different licenses for the GameBase frontend and the Database. Unfortunately, we have agreed that if any single Team Member wants to enforce the license on the database, then we must enforce it (it's only fair in a team effort). There are still members (at least 1) that wish to enforce the license at this point. Sorry.
-J2010C-
Gu
Guest

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:52 am

daveee65 wrote: Tom, If you are interested in using my SNES Gamebase for your project, I am happy to discuss via e-mail :D - check out my profile for the address, or visit the Nintendo SNES forum for more details;
http://www.gb64.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

Regards,

Daveee
Hi Davee, sorry I did not get back sooner and thanks for your support on this. I'll contact you personally, but wanted to say in a few days I'll be releasing a version of GameEx which has preliminary database support for other emulators such as SNES. I already have an N64 database that someone working with me on this provided, and it would be great if I could add support for your SNES database. The support at the moment caters for the following fields, so its not nearly as detailed as gamebase yet. Although it reads from an Access database so it should be simple to write a query in the db that returns the required fields.

GoodName, Name, Category, Developer, and description.

Ill send this on in an email now.

Thanks again,
Tom.
Gu
Guest

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:57 am

Sorry Edit: Fields are:

GoodName, Name, Release Date, NumberPlayers, Category, Description

Return to “The GameBase Frontend”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests